Discussion Forum

Just a thought, but it really gets on my nerves when you read forum postings and comment boxes on websites, and people continually write 'of' instead of the proper 'have.'

EG - "He should of..."

"I would of..."

etc.

The word is 'have' not 'of.'

It's only two letters more for God's sake. Or are people just thick?

Regards

Skoob.

That's all Tony Blair's fault..

Agreed CJ.

He should of sorted it out a long time ago. Like what I would of.

Regards

Skoob.

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Quote: Skoob1999

Just a thought, but it really gets on my nerves when you read forum postings and comment boxes on websites, and people continually write 'of' instead of the proper 'have.'

EG - "He should of..."

"I would of..."

etc.

The word is 'have' not 'of.'

It's only two letters more for God's sake. Or are people just thick?

---

Now then, Skoob, let's get back to the discussion about Standard English.

It seems suddenly topical again

Hello MW

It's all about the basics.

I've lost count of the number of times I've read notes saying that the paperwork or whatever is in the 'draw' when they mean 'drawer'

I worked in engineering earlier on in my uneventful life, and just as an experiment, I went around asking people if they could spell 'continuous' a word which at that time featured in every cinema ad in every local paper - continuous from 13:30 daily, etc. So it wasn't as though I'd challenged people to spell some obscure word.

Remember, I was working among some really clever people.

The only guy who got it right was the guy who swept the floor. That's true.

Regards

Skoob.

I sometimes sweep our patio..

Just to make me more literate..

No effect so far..

You have a patio?

Luxury...

Regards

Skoob

I used to work at the DHSS years ago, 'on the counter' dealing with, what were first called 'the claimants', but later became 'the clients' and then 'the customers', but that's not what I want to talk about.

Sometimes, people would come in and have to report a change in their circumstances for a variety of reasons. They would be asked to write these changes down on a form A169, and would busily scribble whatever bollox it was on this form. The funny thing is, they would always get the word 'as' wrong. Example:

"I would therefore like to claim a Crisis Loan has I have no money."

They would somehow imagine that, during the course of their dreary lives, they had been saying 'as' instead of, what they thought was, the correct word, 'has', and now that they were in a 'posh office' where proper English was spoken, they thought they had better speak properly.

I always used to laugh at that one.



Actually, Skoob (and CJ), I'm off to bed now. I'm really knackered. Speak to you both tomorrow.

Nighty night MW

Regards

Skoob.

"off of": that's one of my pet hates.

'I got off of the bus'

No you didn't, you got off the bus.

Or you disembarked...................

have not = muy pobre

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Quote: Skoob1999

You have a patio?

Luxury...

Regards

Skoob

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I think he really means potato skoob


I completely agree skoob. Our language is of course continuously developing; but, it would be nice to think it is developing towards a correct language with proper reasons why it develops. Not just because of the ignorance of the hoi polloi My pet hate(s) are sumfink and nuffink or somethink/nothink as the case may be. All too often heard on TV. This is perhaps Cockney accent/dialect/patois (not sure of the differences) but it is not part of the formal language. The false 'black speak' of kids I don't like but it has always been part of youth culture to set one's self apart from adults in some way whether by dress or language or habit.

People today don't distinguish enough between formal written English and spoken English which are two quite different things. This is because many more of them than ever before have very low literacy levels and hardly ever pick up a book.

Look at a transcript of a Blair speech to get an idea of what the difference between spoken and written English means.

'Would of' is indeed a regional spoken variant in English but in formal written English it should only ever appear in quotes if written. It is a colloquialism.

I believe it was Tony Blair who said 'education' three times.

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Quote: Jaggedone

have not = muy pobre

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Sorry JO... have-not(s) = los mas pobres

When I say 'patio'

I'm refering to the three stolen paving slabs leading to our outside lavatory - which we share with no 113 on one side and no 109 on the other.

One of my jobs is to sweep it.

With a nailbrush.

Soft southern bastard!

Outside toilet!

What's up with the bushes in the park?

Regards

Skoob.

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Quote: Colonel Juan

When I say 'patio'

I'm refering to the three stolen paving slabs leading to our outside lavatory - which we share with no 113 on one side and no 109 on the other.

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Are you the guy that's been pissing in the tomato plant? Apartments 113 and 109 have filed a complaint about this.

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Quote: Lynton

it would be nice to think it is developing towards a correct language with proper reasons why it develops.

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Professor Honey's thoughts, exactly.

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Quote: Lynton

My pet hate(s) are sumfink and nuffink or somethink/nothink as the case may be. All too often heard on TV. This is perhaps Cockney accent/dialect/patois (not sure of the differences) but it is not part of the formal language.

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Estuary English. Words like 'it' no longer seem to have the 't' sound. Apparently, linguists call this t-glottalling. Hence, 'a better bit of butter' is pronounced without any 't' sounds.


Also, the way the letter 'l' is turned into a vowel:

Milk becomes miwk, St Paul's becomes St Paws and Walter becomes water. And then, as has been proven on countless occasions by Phil Mitchell in EastEnders:

"Izzersumming you ain'tellinme?"

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Quote: Lynton

The false 'black speak' of kids

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... and now copied by gullible white kids.

Lynton, see the thread in the Story Discussion Forum on Iain B's story about the University of Reading.

One of my step-daughters has been talking Ja - fake - an for years.

Fuck knows why, because she's from Hampshire.

She's turned 30 now, with three kids, and she still does it.

She thinks it's 'street innit'

She sounds fucking ridiculous.

And just between us, my top Spoof amigos:

She says she's a Londoner.

Well...I was on a bus with her once, and we were passing Saint Paul's, and get this...she asked me what the museum was.

Londoner?

Yeah. Right.

Regards

Skoob.

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Quote: Skoob1999

The word is 'have' not 'of.'

It's only two letters more for God's sake. Or are people just thick?

---

"Should of" sounds like the contraction "should've."

Literacy could fix this problem, but is the New Dark Ages, don'tchya know.

Wish we had 3 paving stones - we only have 1 and it's a bloody squeeze getting 4 chairs and a small table on it.

Anyway - the 'should of' being 'should have' was taught to us very quickly at Middlesbrough Girls' High School. Some of us came from - literally 'the other side of the tracks' the railway separated us from the posh kids.

Pet peeves of mine are:

When people confuse 'infer' and 'imply'

When people use the world 'prospective' when they mean 'perspective' - and that one's all over the telly here, coming from, so called 'educated, literate' people.
Even the fella advertizing the new show "Canadian Perspectives" would say, "Don't forget to watch Canadian Prospectives, Tuesdays at 8.00" I wanted to put my foot through the screen.....but we couldn't afford a new telly.

Dangling particles also get on my 'bosoms'. My mother-in-law taught me about those when I met her. No dangling participles:

How long are you staying for? (WRONG)

Who are you going with? (WRONG)

For how long are you going? (CORRECT)

With whom are you going? (CORRECT)

I hope they are correct or I guess (Americanism) I'll be hearing from you.

Oh. Over here, most people mix up the words TAKE and BRING
I've finally taught my two grown daughters the difference...but they only correct themselves around me....

I could go on...but I'll save some for later. LOL
Spelling was bad but is now WORSE because of texting.

Take and Bring have probably been affected by the number of foreigners who in their own languages would bring whereas we would take something and vice versa.

I'm glad GW Bush is gone - I held out little hope for a country whose, president said "nucular" instead of nuclear could be confusing if he had to push a button any time. I did hear they had to change the red button label from "nuclear deterrent" to "Bang!"

It has always been looked upon as bad manners to correct somebody when speaking (unless they ask one so to do - did that avoid a dangle Lady G?) - maybe that should change.

I do not enjoy hearing, "can you borrow me a tenner" or, "we was looking at the" or reading, that dreadful, "should of" mentioned by skoob, I think. Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong!

However, I have to accept, once and for all, that so much of this is down to a very poor education. My son used to tell me about a brilliant IT student, in his year at uni, who could not write a sentence in English without error. The guy did not even have an SCE* in English. He had top passes in Maths, Physics, Chemistry and IT at Higher**. My son and some other students wrote this guys Honours Dissertation for him. He gave them the rough copy and they wrote the dissertation.

*SCE = Scottish GCSE equivalent
** Higher = Scottish qualification just below the level of the "A" level

I have to admit, I often get mixed up between 'lend' and 'borrow'. Why is this? I'm not stupid, and I understand both words and when they should be used. Something, however, stops me from selecting the correct word.

I had a theory on this, and did some research in my bedroom. It turns out that I have a gene defect, one that makes me say 'lend' when I should say 'borrow', and 'borrow' when I should say 'lend'.

Secondly, I also have to say, in response to Skoob's remarks with regard to his step-daughter, I, too, have refined the way I speak, in order that others can understand what I am saying. If I spoke with a Hull accent, two things might happen:

1) the school would have me removed, or
2) the children would start speaking with a Hull accent

Both disastrous effects, and ones that I do not intend to let happen. That is why I tend to 'modify' the way I speak, but that is to do with accent. The gist of our discussion was that everyone should at least have a knowledge of Standard English. Many, as various people have now said, cannot even read or write, and experts, teachers and employers back this up.

What hope is there now, when the children seem to run the schools?

Bizarrely, no matter what people think of sites such as TheSpoof.com, if more people indulged in writing this sick shit, more of them could claim some degree of literacy!

Hurrah!

Agree with you there MW.

Once went on my own to Germany for something to do (wrong end at Bayern and all that stuff) speaking barely a word of German.

You have to modify your accent if you want to be understood. It was my first experience of this, and over time, it has changed my accent, that and living in the south these days.

But the standard English structure becomes increasingly important as we become increasingly mobile, and as we encounter more foreign workmates.

My accent is still predominantly Mancunian, with some Burnley and even some estuary style stuff in the mix, which is fine when I'm at home with the wife.

But my best mate at work is Indian, and English is his second language. I find that if I moderate my accent and speak standard English, he understands me perfectly.

If I talk the way I do at home, particularly after a couple of shandies - when you're relaxed and everything starts to come out in its original form - he hasn't a clue what I'm talking about.

I've worked with foreigners from all over the globe, particularly over the last ten years or so - and most of them can handle my accent (providing I tone it down a little) but a major part of that comprehension comes from using a standard form of the language, which is akin to what people might read.

I would think that this is something which becomes easier to grasp when you've been alone in another country where you have to rely on their command of English, and have to adjust accordingly.

Does this make sense?

Probably not, but I know what I'm getting at. Mind you, I am in the grip of a few shandies.

Regards

Skoob.

It makes big sense skoob.

When I worked in Switzerland at the HQ of a large food company the working language was 'English'. It was an odd English and you needed to know the grammar, syntax and vocabulary of three or four other languages to understand it as an English speaker. For instance instead of explain the word used was explicate. This comes from French.

If I spoke to them I had to be careful of the words I chose and completely avoid colloquialisms and idiom. The written English was perfect but it was the spoken English that varied.

My son is completely bilingual and I can talk to him as I would you and lapse into the bad stuff and expressions when I speak.

The wife 'speaks English' quite well in fact but I find myself choosing my words carefully when I talk to her in English (and not just because she's a woman!).