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I agree - no more trying to fathom it out. I was 'hosptalized' twice for trying to figure stuff out about 'life'. Spent many years on a variety of medications.

Ah well. I've reached the ripe old age of $% and I have met a few zealots in my life. As you say both religious and non-religious. My brother is a JW (WAS an atheist most of his life.)

Got to go. The World Cup has been on for a minute already.
Damn! I hope no-one has scored yet.

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Quote: Incredulous

When you think of the so called 'singularity' as I often do,
that is when loopy loo starts calling.
How do you get something from nothing?
Loopy is creeping up on me again.

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Fear not!

Ever heard the phrase "nature abhors a vacuum?"

It's impossible to empty a space completely. There will always be a few subatomic particles or some energy in there somewhere, no matter how empty the space.

The opposite goes for a black hole. A singularity by definition reaches infinite density. However, space can never be 100% full any more than it can be 100% empty. The universe abhors a singularity as much as a vacuum.

Unlike Stephen Hawking, I believe that black holes continue to accrete matter throughout their life, eventually becoming associated with a universe-sized hurricane- or galaxy-shaped vortex. As this structure collapses, the resulting "Big Crunch" allows the super-supermassive black hole at the center to reach a threshold approaching infinity until, much like novae in binary star systems characteristically trigger at about 1.4 solar masses (fact), the whole thing blows apart, though the mass in the case of a Big Bang would be Incrediblously higher.

Newtonian mathematics can help describe reality, but they have their limitations. That's why I use NewtOnion mathematics.

BTW, my dog also used to abhor vacuums.

Even if the space were empty, it'd still be full of space.

By the way, welcome back Incredulous!

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Quote: Incredulous

What a thorny question, God and the Devil.
I will say this though, I have come to think that there is something, I will just call it fate.
Over the last twelve months I have survived many self inflicted wounds and incredibly I have walked away from them relatively unscathed.
And so if I have such a joy for living again, what am I doing here, following The Spoof, ahhhh! It's because I love ya!
I AM STILL ALIVE I TELL YOU. ALIVE! HA!
Thank God or the Devil or whatever it is out there!

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What a coincidence a day full of them - speak of you in the morning and poof you turn up shortly after - as they say Inc old chap speak of the Devil etc

It's been the devil of a day Lynton old chap.

Extremely interesting reading on this thread.

On another thread we were talking about 'nothing' e.g.

Nothing tastes better than a cold beer!

So, I ask you, why not drink 'nothing' and save all the money spent on cold beer?

Your wiggly butt icon is making it hard for me to think Godly thoughts.

You are obviously referring to armfeetandtoe and not to innocent little ME. Arm's avatar is a little 'cracker'. My avatar isn't moving. Crossed posts!

LG it's that belly button smiley that does it - they are all of a 'certain age' on here and thus rather excitable

STOP! STOP! Lynton and Lady G, I will not have sexual advances on this holy thread! If you wish to date. please go and see Mark Lowton and arrainge for a chaperone.

By the way, have any miracles happened since this thread started?

Love

Arm

Calm down! Calm down boys! I'm 61 years young, married with 2 daughters 26 and 30. Well, that's the reality of it all....but when I read it back to myself...it certainly doesn't seem to describe me, even though I look nothing like my profile picture.

I am sure as heck, no Smurfette!

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Quote: Lady Godiva

... I look nothing like my profile picture.

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Yeah.

Smurfette doesn't even look that good!

Well that all depends on the level of sobriety of the 'viewer' don't you think?

Surely Smurfette is more pleasing to the eye than Pink Elephants!

Well, unless you have a pachoderm fetish (pardon the spelling - I don't have my Dick Shonnery at hand!)

Arm what an imagination you must have! Tha means there must be a head somewhere in that tangle of limbs - show yourself!

Lynton, you are so cute!

Does that count as 'flirting' over here??

Getting back to a 'Very serious question', that was an interesting exlanation The San Francisco Onion gave.
I hardly understood a word of it, but that should be expected from me and I rather think it is! Ha!
But where did sub-atomic particles come from, in the beginning there had to be absolutely nothing surely.
And who begat God, where did he gatecrash from, who invited him?
The really serious question is humanity.
How the hell did we stumble upon this world and make a complete balls of it?
Well I have exhausted myself now, all this thinking, so early in the morning.
I must start reading my old Marvel comics again, that is where the truth lies. Doesn't it!??

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Quote: Lady Godiva

Lynton, you are so cute!

Does that count as 'flirting' over here??

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Can't imagine flirting at our age - swapping stories of ailments perhaps - bemoaning the fact that you turn around and find yourself with kids aproaching middle age or when you look in the mirror you see your mum or dad looking back at you. That you go out shopping and find yourself irresistibly attracted to all things beige. That for some reason someone somewhere feels that you deserve to receive information on stairlifts and incontinence aids and rather large clothes - AND that a rather ingenious chair that pushes you out of it jus when you want to get up will be just what you will want to buy with your tiny pension!

Oh and don't forget all those other catalogues that think just because you are over 55 you might like a full collection of Glen Miller music. Although I must admit I do find a long-handled trowell a reall boon for weeding the patio.

Bugger! Now I'm depressed.

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Quote: Incredulous

But where did sub-atomic particles come from, in the beginning there had to be absolutely nothing surely.

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Bollocks. There is no such thing as nothing. Nothing by definition -- is nothing. In fact, using the word "be" with the word "nothing" makes no sense, because if there is nothing, how can it be? Nothing is a concept of the human mind that we have created a word for, but it does not exist, just like zero.

Almost all scientists like to say that of the strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravitational forces, gravity is the weakest. I disagree. Gravity is so strong that in a black hole, every single particle gets crushed together into what basically becomes a single particle. In other words, it's gravity is so strong, it makes them lose their identities completely, including their virtually insignificant strong, weak and electromagnetic forces. Ha! Take that, scientists!

Even in a neutron star that was too small at supernova time to have become a black hole, the gravity is still strong enough to smash protons and electrons together, creating neutrons. But the point is, nothing ever gets smashed down to less than one particle. Matter and energy may be changed from one form to the other, but both sides of the equation will always balance. Stuff doesn't just disappear.

You can only multiply both sides of an equation by zero because we invented zeroes, not to mention math. Nature does not use zeroes in her equations.

Getting something for nothing violates every law in the known universe. That alone implies that there must have always been something. Or, even if there was a God to create the universe, where did it come from? That means there was already something there too - a God in this case! Godcha!

There is always something, and always was, even if it was incredibly tiny - and probably ring shaped for a split nanosecond just before it big banged. Yes, Incredulous, I've heard of Kerr black holes, but I suspect that theory is as wrong as Hawking's Hawking Radiation theory.

Anyway, that's what's happening our neck of the woods. It's happening somewhere else too, so far away that we can't see it. Other big bangs creating other universes. The actual Universe contains our universe and all these others, and all the bubbles that all these big bangs sort of resemble a gigantic pot of boiling water in super-slo-mo.

Can you believe it?

Oh! I'm rambling again! You should not ask me questions like these, Incrediblous, you ought to know that by now! And don't even get me started on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle! Ha!

There is only one Dieu and he wore nr. 7 everybody else were and are imposters!

I liked the man too, Jaggedone, but in all honesty he was merely an apostle of the great one just as Maradona, et al, were too.
The great one is on his way.
Somewhere.
Someday.
Soon.
Well, sometime anyways.
He's on the train. Sitting back, reading the paper and drinking a can of 7up, watching the countryside pass by as he journey's through life, love and fields of fluffy sheep and cows.
If he was German he'd be here on time but he's not German.
He'll be a South American.

Pele no, no, no!

Mon Dieu, qui, qui, qui

Pele's waaaaay before Jesus Budda's time.

I liked Cantona at Leeds. Remember when Leeds weren't crap?
Whatever happened to Gary Speed?
He was the ladies favourite.
Maybe he became the gentleman's favourite.
It happens, ya know.

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Quote: Jesus Budda

Pele's waaaaay before Jesus Budda's time.

I liked Cantona at Leeds. Remember when Leeds weren't crap?
Whatever happened to Gary Speed?
He was the ladies favourite.
Maybe he became the gentleman's favourite.
It happens, ya know.

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It's a well known fat that Mon Dieu moved to Manchester because he didn't appreciate the ancient sport of sheep shagging

He's sorely missed.
Not many like him nowadays.

What's a particle then?

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Quote: The San Francisco Onion

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Quote: Incredulous

But where did sub-atomic particles come from, in the beginning there had to be absolutely nothing surely.

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Bollocks. There is no such thing as nothing. Nothing by definition -- is nothing. In fact, using the word "be" with the word "nothing" makes no sense, because if there is nothing, how can it be? Nothing is a concept of the human mind that we have created a word for, but it does not exist, just like zero.

Almost all scientists like to say that of the strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravitational forces, gravity is the weakest. I disagree. Gravity is so strong that in a black hole, every single particle gets crushed together into what basically becomes a single particle. In other words, it's gravity is so strong, it makes them lose their identities completely, including their virtually insignificant strong, weak and electromagnetic forces. Ha! Take that, scientists!

Even in a neutron star that was too small at supernova time to have become a black hole, the gravity is still strong enough to smash protons and electrons together, creating neutrons. But the point is, nothing ever gets smashed down to less than one particle. Matter and energy may be changed from one form to the other, but both sides of the equation will always balance. Stuff doesn't just disappear.

You can only multiply both sides of an equation by zero because we invented zeroes, not to mention math. Nature does not use zeroes in her equations.

Getting something for nothing violates every law in the known universe. That alone implies that there must have always been something. Or, even if there was a God to create the universe, where did it come from? That means there was already something there too - a God in this case! Godcha!

There is always something, and always was, even if it was incredibly tiny - and probably ring shaped for a split nanosecond just before it big banged. Yes, Incredulous, I've heard of Kerr black holes, but I suspect that theory is as wrong as Hawking's Hawking Radiation theory.

Anyway, that's what's happening our neck of the woods. It's happening somewhere else too, so far away that we can't see it. Other big bangs creating other universes. The actual Universe contains our universe and all these others, and all the bubbles that all these big bangs sort of resemble a gigantic pot of boiling water in super-slo-mo.

Can you believe it?

Oh! I'm rambling again! You should not ask me questions like these, Incrediblous, you ought to know that by now! And don't even get me started on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle! Ha!

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