Discussion Forum

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Quote: Skoob1999

it has changed my accent ... living in the south these days.

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Pansy.

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Quote: Skoob1999

But my best mate at work is Indian,

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Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that. Just joking!


Oh, rub-a-dub-dub-dub-dub-ding-ding-ding-gimme-summathatblackcurrantcheesecake!

Just joking again, Lovely people, the Indians. Cheyenne?

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Quote: Skoob1999 and English is his second language. I find that if I moderate my accent and speak standard English, he understands me perfectly.

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But that's just your accent, Skoob. Imagine if you put on your best Standard English accent, yet still said things like:

"My goodness, dear fellow, would you care to stop mithering me?"

Would he still be able to understand you? You see, I'm not really talking about your accent, which I'm sure is lovely, but the actual words you say. If you said 'mithering', he would probably have to get his Indian/Manchester dictionary, a little picture book that he's been keeping as long as he's known you.

Have you seen Billy Liar? There's a great scene in the film where Billy is discussing his intention to move to London with the councillor:

"So tha's going to London, is ta?' he said with mild interest, as though the subject of the calendars had been settled entirely to his satisfaction.

Hopefully, I said: 'Aye, ah'm just about thraiped wi' Stadhoughton'. I remembered too late that 'thraiped' was a word Arthur and I had made up.

'How does ta mean?'

'It's neither muckling nor mickling,' I said, using another invented phrase in my complete panic.

'Aye.' The old man poked the ground with his stick, and said again, 'Aye.' I had no indication what he was thinking about at all. I tried hard to keep talking, but I could not think of a single word of any description.

'Well tha's gotten me in a very difficult position,' he said weightily, at last.

'How does ta mean, Councillor?'

He studied me keenly, and I realised for the first time, with a sinking heart, that he was not as daft as he looked.

'Is ta taking a rise out o' me, young man?'


Brilliant, that, the way the utterance of just one, small local word, 'ta' (and, by extension, 'tha', 'thee' and finally 'you'), brought the councillor the realisation that Billy was taking the piss.

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Quote: Skoob1999

I've worked with foreigners from all over the globe, particularly over the last ten years or so - and most of them can handle my accent (providing I tone it down a little) but a major part of that comprehension comes from using a standard form of the language, which is akin to what people might read.

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Exactamundo.

Lynton, oh no! Did you type that little bit just to 'get me going'? Which bit thou asketh?

'THE WIFE.....' Oh my dog!

Well,teaching in Canada, with a fairly 'refined Middlesbrough accent' which hasn't change in the 28 yrs. I've lived here....all I can say is that if the kids I teach COULD copy my accent, they'd do a hellova lot better with their spelling.

The Canadians I work with and teach, get their vowels all confused and can't even understand each other sometimes.

For example, they pronounce 'pin' 'pen' 'pan' all the same.

'man' and 'men' the same. 'Don' and 'Dawn' the same.

The list goes on.

My youngest brother has a broader accent than mine and broader than our other two brothers - he WILL say "Can A lend yer pen a mini'?"

"'Ave yer saw our mam?"

"A seen 'er over Morrisons." etc.

I still love 'im ta bits!

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Quote: Lady Godiva

How long are you staying for? (WRONG)

Who are you going with? (WRONG)

For how long are you going? (CORRECT)

With whom are you going? (CORRECT)

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"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put." -- often attributed to Winston Churchill.

As a writer, I see writing much like I see painting as an artist. A junior-high school teacher once told me something that stuck: You have to learn "the rules" before you break them. For example, she said, if you learn the rules of good composition first, you will better know how to play with them for dramatic effect.

In light of previous discussions in another thread regarding the standardization of English, I think that, as long as you clearly and effectively communicate what you are trying to say, that's more important than if you follow every single rule. That can take something away from your style, too.

I used to give lower ratings for poorly edited submissions, even if it was funny. I don't do that anymore. I believe the way a writer writes can often reflect the way he or she would communicate verbally and quite naturally. You're more apt to use rules as a writer, but in my estimation, it's more important than ever to encourage creativity, participation, and literacy in any capacity, even if it's not the one you were hoping for.

Is that really so bad?

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Quote: The San Francisco Onion

Is that really so bad?

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Bad? No, but we weren't really talking about good or bad, we were saying that, to know the standard form opens doors for people in a way that 'not knowing' keeps them firmly shut. I think you said the same thing yourself up above. Your teacher was, in my opinion, absolutely right.

There is one thing, however. Those poorly-edited (more like 'non-edited) submissions to which you gave a relatively low rating, and to which, you say, you no longer give such low ratings: they were probably written that way in ignorance, rather than for artistic style.

Or, at least, it's possible they were.

Lady G, what and where do you teach? Sorry if I've not been paying attention in the past.

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Quote: Monkey Woods

Bad? No, but we weren't really talking about good or bad, we were saying that, to know the standard form opens doors for people in a way that 'not knowing' keeps them firmly shut. I think you said the same thing yourself up above. Your teacher was, in my opinion, absolutely right.

There is one thing, however. Those poorly-edited (more like 'non-edited) submissions to which you gave a relatively low rating, and to which, you say, you no longer give such low ratings: they were probably written that way in ignorance, rather than for artistic style.

Or, at least, it's possible they were.

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Excellent observations all.

Thanks for lending me your ear, or for letting me borrow yours, whichever way you prefer. Although I didn't ask to borrow your ear, nor did you actually offer yours, so lexically, that suggests I may have stolen it. But you can't really listen to a post in a forum thread anyway, now can you? At any rate, I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.

... here.

Getting at "here."

Here are some Canadians with an odd accent. Nothing is taken seriously here unless a bagpiper is involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW_D0Eblg24

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Quote: Lady Godiva

Lynton, oh no! Did you type that little bit just to 'get me going'? Which bit thou asketh?

'THE WIFE.....' Oh my dog!

Well,teaching in Canada, with a fairly 'refined Middlesbrough accent' which hasn't change in the 28 yrs. I've lived here....all I can say is that if the kids I teach COULD copy my accent, they'd do a hellova lot better with their spelling.

The Canadians I work with and teach, get their vowels all confused and can't even understand each other sometimes.

For example, they pronounce 'pin' 'pen' 'pan' all the same.

'man' and 'men' the same. 'Don' and 'Dawn' the same.

The list goes on.

My youngest brother has a broader accent than mine and broader than our other two brothers - he WILL say "Can A lend yer pen a mini'?"

"'Ave yer saw our mam?"

"A seen 'er over Morrisons." etc.

I still love 'im ta bits!

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Quote: The San Francisco Onion

Excellent observations all.

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This is lovely, isn't it? Talking about things like this instead of vaginas and other sexual organs.

And not a swear word in sight. Well, maybe the odd 'shit' here and there, but nothing too serious. Ah, yes, delightful!


Got to go, SFO. Off to write some more filth.

Monkey, you little bugger, I have challenged you somewhere else to 'come out' as a Born Again Virgin. It is so freakin' obvious.

Bring it on Monkey! I do believe you have met your match now. LOL.

Yes, it's true, we CAN have conversations without mentioning vaginas, dicks, arses and the like.

I challenge you to try it FOR ONE WEEK.

ONE WEEK? Couldn't it just be one day? Or if it has to be seven days, couldn't it just be ONE WEEK, without the bold characters?

What is a Born Again Virgin, if you don't mind me asking? And why do you suppose I have met my match? Are we to be 'joined together'? Or are we in competition?

Please explain what you mean.

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Quote: Lady Godiva

Monkey, you little bugger, I have challenged you somewhere else to 'come out' as a Born Again Virgin. It is so freakin' obvious.

Bring it on Monkey! I do believe you have met your match now. LOL.

Yes, it's true, we CAN have conversations without mentioning vaginas, dicks, arses and the like.

I challenge you to try it FOR ONE WEEK.

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Lady G - did you know that Canad was the only other coubtry in the world apart from Britain where you can say "bugger me!" and they don actually try?

Is it only me who can't mention those things for a week? I ask because Lynton, by implication, just mentioned 'buggery'.

Mr. Onion, you are actually 'preaching to the converted'. If you put MY work under a microscope, or even put a pair of glasses on....you will see many breakages of the rules of the English Grammar. (Sorry! Put on a pair of glasses - I quite like dangling particles).

I just like to 'play' here.

My students write brilliant stories and they don't have to worry about spelling, I always understand their meaning and don't want to bog them down with rules of any kind. There's a place for that, but not when their creative juices are flowing.

Most of them speak Low German at home and so English is their second language and when they get to my grade (4) they have to learn French too. Poor wee bairns, they're only 8, 9 or 10 yrs. old.

By the way, I DO NOT MARK WITH A BLEEDING RED PEN! I have an aversion to them so I use Blue, Green, Purple etc. You can always tell when a 'Supply teacher' has been in for me.....bloody red ticks and crosses everywhere.

(Here ticks are 'check marks' and crosses are 'ex 's).

Oh - don't use 'crosses' either, I just draw a little arrow pointing at an error etc.