Discussion Forum

But seriously, folks...

There's still a lot of silly sniping and counter sniping going on.

Why can't be just forget about the bloody acronym thread, eh?

I mean, what has it all been about?

Some people think the acronym thread is crap.

Others think it's fine.

What's the big deal?

Can we not just let it lie?

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Quote: Erskin Quint
What's the big deal?

---

Since you asked, let's not confuse things, Erskin. Acronyms are crap. Go back and read twenty pages worth. Not ALL of them, sure. But the majority. Utter, tedious, unnecessary, ungrammatical, often illiterate crap. Tending to descend to the lowest common denominator of arse/penis/vagina/Nazi bollox - whenever the focus isn't upon them.

But that's never been the problem.

I actually got a bit angry yesterday, which was very silly of me. I apologise.

But Pinxit wrote quite a pretty Dear Spoof. Must have taken him all of 30 minutes to polish it up. And it could easily have been subbed as a stand alone Spoof. But typical of that thread (and a few others like it) it was gifted onto our little community... to delight or not, as the case may be.

Less than thirty minutes it lasted. Before someone 'covered' it with an acronym. Not just any old acronym but a right turd of an acronym. A five second fart of an acronym. An unwanted and unnecessary dollop of crap.

And that happens commonly.

Of course there's nothing wrong with threads bouncing about and being 'covered'. But I've had that done to me so many times by acronymites, I'm no longer sure it's worth the effort trying to compose wit on the Forum. And wouldn't it be sort of nice to have creative space for everyone to enjoy?

And it's not just Danton who was supplying the great copy. Maggot 'instigated' things  but I've seen terrific posts from the likes of Inchy... and many others (Sorry, but I'm allergic to lists on here).

And finally, as I've said before, you Erskin have contributed much towards upping the creative stakes on the Forum. I recognise that so never believe this is personal.

Maybe it would improve if certain other acronymists got house-trained?


kindest regards

CJ

Oh dear.

This isn't going to go away is it?

What do you mean by threads being 'covered'?

Many's the thread I've started/added to as you kindly point out. Many's the story I've written. Many of them die a death. So what? I don't give a shit.

There's an easy way to handle this if a particular thread is not to your liking:

• don't click on the offending thread
• just click on the threads you are interested in

If you don't like that, perhaps there is another way:

There must be a way to keep the Dear Spoof thread at the top all the time. Would that work for you?

Why not ask Mark if he can arrange that? I guess there's a way to keep a thread at the top. That might work.

I agree about a lot of the acronyms being very poor and that there needs to be a rise in quality. Let's hope that people can try to achieve this.

I appreciate that here as often you yourself are speaking from an aesthetic perspective rather than a technical or procedural one - I see that and see your point.

Yes, maybe if the acronymists 'up their act', that is something we can try to do.

sincerely

EQ

Surely, this forum is for everyone, not just the "A" level educated English Scholar? I did not get the Acronym thing at first, but have tried hard to place my replies in a way in which I hoped would be understood and make sense. If what you are saying C.J. is that "certain" people leave crap posts, that is an opinion one should keep to themselves because it can be hurtful. Or, why not help those people by giving advice in a P.M.

I will not be posting on the Acronym thread again. I dont like being judged because my standards do not meet certain criteria. And if there is a standard. Publish it!

Arm

Removed

Arm and Jean - now you've made me feel a rotter. I was trying to be diplomatic and amenable and see where CJ is coming from. Maybe that was an error. I thought it might be but I was trying to be nice and have empathy with all viewpoints.

I agree with you both - who's to judge on 'standards'? Forgive me for my weak temporary lapse. Arm - don't give up on this account. I don't think any of your posts are crap - au contraire mate!

I hate this and it fuckin stinks.

I say again - let's just let it lie and each post in their preferred threads.

If some people still object and grouse and grumble, well, basically, they haven't a leg to stand on in terms of a rational argument.

Erskin old chap, I'm currently wearing a smile of such a gentle, affable and benign nature that if you were to look at me you'd swear you were looking at the tender visage of a gurgling babe in arms.

When I first arrived in this temple of titters, labrynth of laughter, Monolith of mirth yadda yadda the first thing that struck me was how friendly the atmosphere seemed to be and how writers would give friendly encouragement to their peers and even gently cajole and lightly admonish those who felt their standards weren't quite up to the mark. Immediately I warmed to the place and signed up on the spot *drums fingers impatiently on cat while chorus of Boos and catcalls dies down*

Mate I dont know if you perceive me as some kind of enfant terrible, an agent provocateur on even a plate of boeuf en crout vis a vis this acronym "furore" but I tell you in all honesty if I was any more ambivalent or laissez faire about the bastard thing I'd be 6 feet under old fruit. In short although I find the thread about as interesting as a chat about adventurous sex with a Trappist monk I would shed my last drop of Cockney blood to defend the rights of those who wish to post therein. For myself I see it as a perfectly harmless little thread albeit a tad formulaic for one like myself who never uses an acronym when a tub thumping oratory will do

In closing I'd like to give out this stirring clarion call. GAWD LUV AND SAYVE OUWR BOOTYFULL AKRONEEMZ FRED AND GAWD LUV AWL THE PRESHUS ANGLES WOT POST INIT!!!

Oh yes!

FACT; This place is for people of all standards and abilities. If they do not meet certain peoples criteria, keep your bludy opinions to yourself. I am fed up with the high handed way peoples contributions are dealt with.

EVERYONE deserves a chance to express themselves and should be encouraged not lambasted. Who gives a toss how good a reply is, as long as that person took the time and effort to reply. If you do not like Acronyms, dont read them and stay off the the thread. Easy.

If you have nothing positive to say to balance your critisism dont bother, it makes you look an arse.

Get a grip, before this place folds under the weightof the detritus that is currently being shoveled into the loft.

Arm

Yes.

I tried to have a sensible debate on this.. but it's proved impossible.

I PM'd Arm a couple of hours ago. I'll not report what I said except that I also echoed Erskin's comments about his contributions.

As for Jean Le Fete, I endorse his and anybody's freedom to have, what he calls fun.

And I also endorse his and anyone's right to produce crap, in the name of having fun. Especially with time restrictions.

So clearly, I have nothing to say concerning acronyms like :- definately (sic) - enlarged flatulent imbeciles needing average tits engulfing large yoni.

Except I'd defend to the death everyone's right to throw in the Sanskrit word for a vagina into whatever piece of writing they fancy, either on a whim or for any other reason.

Write what you like.. obviously.. It's getting boring having to repeat it again and again..

You can even celebrate pig ignorance for all I care. Just as they used to do back in the Good Old Days..

Let's all go and knock our vaginas clean outta the ball park eh...

I actually though I/We had made all this clear time and time again.

But obviously not..

Can we not just let it lie?

Erskin, your comment above is absolutely correct and I applaud your statement.

So to all other participants here who want to write what they want to write just do so and don't be intimidated by anybody.

This place is a haven for multi-talented writers and if sometimes we write crap so be it, so just as Erskin pleads above:

JUST FUCKING DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! And let this idiocy end right now; for me it's ended and I absolutely refuse to comment on the A thread again; what an absolute load of old bollocks!

BTW:

A UK 95 year old pensioner got beaten up in a horrific attack yesterday, I was nearly physically sick when I read this and such morons should be fucking shot! And we are sitting here getting our knickers in a twist about the A thread!!!!!! Pathetic!!

Now just get it on and have a good time here, the world is too awful out there and I need this place to cheer me up!

JO; final word, certainly!

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Quote: Jaggedone
This place is a haven for multi-talented writers and if sometimes we write crap so be it

---

Oh Gawd, here we go again....

Yes JO.

Although I suspect you mean mixed ability rather than multi-talented.

Actually, there's an influential group of us who have pushed the mixed-ability philosophy non-stop - and throughout the battles that have made this site what it is today.

Not that you'd know fuck all about that..

Never mind..

On another level, JO .. do please CUT the lectures.

Or would you rather we chatted about that story you wrote the other week..

you know, the one about the guy who had a stroke and woke up a homosexual.

You might fancy occupying the high moral ground JO. But that's a right that has to be earned..

Regards

CJ

Nicely put Jag I agree with everything you say. This sort of cherlish bollocks really grates me. Why not everyone try putting a little more into the creative pot instead of adding a diatribe of caustic soda.


Arm

I never admitted to not writing crap, in fact CJ if you would get off your very sore-saddle for a second you would have read that very statement.

I WRITE FUCKING CRAP TOO!!!!!

ok

Yes JO, I know..

and that doesn't matter..

although some things DO matter..

anyway,

May I buy you a drink?

regards

CJ

NO! I WRITE FUCKING CRAP!

Arm xxxxxxxxxx

May I buy you a drink?

CJ, any time my esteemed colleague (seriously), I would love to come to the UK and sit down with you and the others and bevy over a thing or two, believe me, I would.

Although we have our differences of opinion I still very much respect most of what you do here, and meeting someone who is willing to take things to the edge like you do, is always interesting.

I hope to be in UK this year, I still have to put my mum's ashes to rest and visit my family over there and I would enjoy meeting you and the other guys and girls personally (especially that Danton chappie?????).

Cheers / JO

We've been here before.

CJ and others have campaigned in the forums before about raising the standards, bringing enlightenment, writerly attitudes to The Spoof.

All meant in the best way and for laudable, creative, humanitarian purposes.

The problem with this is that it runs up against the buffers of this fact:

The Spoof is not primarily a writers' site

Everything we do here is done in words, yes. But that is true of many a forum, chat-room or blog. There could be said to be a craft to writing spoofs, certainly. Some things on here also go beyond spoofing and aspire to the nature of literature.

But you don't have to have literary aspirations, or creative talent or inclination, to come here.

What has all this got to do with the acronym acrimony?

Well, when CJ and others make statements about the standard of what others are posting - even if this is done with the above laudable ambitions in mind (and I'm not convinced these were always to the forefront in this latest debate) - then a number of those others are going to get annoyed and feel that they are being patronised, lectured to, dictated to, even. S'natural.

Yes, in a writers' workshop or creative writing course, the whole raison d'etre is to offer mutual criticism and to aspire to hone one's craft.

But The Spoof ain't those.

I applaud CJ's ambitions, I share them in many ways. I have often thought that a separate forum or thread(s) set aside for writerly purposes would be a good idea.

But then I think 'The Spoof ain't that' and I realise that if I want that I should look elsewhere.

That doesn't mean individuals should not aspire and learn and hone their writing while they are here. I am one who tries to do that - if I manage to get any writing done, that is. Those writers could then raise the bar, offer an example, lead by example.

It does mean that lecturing, preaching, running forum campaigns is bound to lead to trouble.

Maybe the way forward is to let people do what they want. If you want to aspire to higher things, then lead by example, let your own writing show what can be achieved. Don't start criticising others, don't appear to be telling them what to do.

These are my thoughts, offered humbly and sincerely.

It's in the nature of electronic forums that this will never be resolved by thread discussion.

EQ





This whole business did not appear

EQ, ear, ear!

Ah.. I've been watching a lass on the recorder win her section of the BBC Young Musician of the Year Compo. Brilliant!!!

Yes, there's quite a lot in there, Erskin..

Parts I agree, share and understand. Other /overviews/opinions you make, I find so deeply depressing it isn't true.

A lot of what you say, I seriously disagree with.

I've certainly always believed that Spoofers with higher artistic expectations (however amateur), outweigh all those with little or absolutely no interest beyond having fun. Maybe I'm wrong. Or perhaps there's a silent majority. Who knows.

Yes, I know there are a tiny and noisy few who genuinely know they can't write and never will. But there seems to me a consensus on here who actively seek to improve. To share. To trust. To dare. To explore.

I don't believe, as you suggest, that The Spoof is just another chat room. Or that it is NOT a writer's site. Indeed, if I thought that. Or believed we were no more than a branch of Facebook, I'd have run a mile years ago.

Because I make things. I believe in growth. And I like to surround myself with others who make things. I certainly want those adventures I support to flourish. That we all share a mutual whim.

And I genuinely believe the majority of Spoofers, at all levels of ability, share that whim.

We can all grow. And if you take growth out of equation you lose all the best people. That's what I believe. I also believe that if you leave shit alone, it sinks to the bottom of the pan.. to the lowest common denominator. That's not a hunch, it's the voice of experience. Flick back six months and read old acronyms, if you don't believe me. That's what scared me (and others) initially.

I also believe the so-called 'fun' side of this debate stank. It was and is a flimsy excuse. Nobody is judging anyone. When you fix into a mixed ability operation, it's up to the strong to guide the weak. And the weak to seek support from the strong. I think I've been attacked by a tiny minority. Not that I care any longer.

I've always had higher aspirations for The Spoof..

Forgive me for that..

I thought I covered it all, actually. I acknowledged and voiced my approval of your ambitions. I also faced the reality of what we have here.

The answer - I tried to suggest - involved a way of facing that reality and also NOT giving up on those ambitions.

Lead by example. If we think this should be a writing site, then we owe it to ourselves and others to write.

Not to talk about writing. Not to tell others what to do.

Not to have a campaign against a particular thread. Surely the forum is of small moment and the articles, stories, whatever, are the most important thing.

Just DO more of what you want to see others do. That's where the strength you talk about should come in.

What I say here isn't based on any theories or pet notions. It's based on seeing what actually happens. What happens here and what happens in any electronic communication format. The nuances are missed, and it all goes pear-shaped.

A Spoof Convention, that might produce very different results!

Why not just lead through your own very excellent writing?

It's time I did some writing too - but that's a matter for me and my demons to sort out!

We're on the same side really. Well, there should be no sides.

There have to be sides Erskin, or there would be no debate.

I've said countless times why I don't like this thread, and why I think it's idiotic and pointless, but at no stage have I said that people can't contribute to it. Not my place, mate. Ergo, not dictating to anybody. I admit to criticising it and finding it at times deeply annoying, the rest was just leg-pulling.

I think those of us who "aren't fans" of the thread knew to a degree what would happen if we had the temerity to criticise it. It would sound a clarion call, and it did.

"I won't be dictated to," - Nobody was dictating anything. Other than the pro-thread side, dictating from the rooftops that they wouldn't be dictated to.

"It's a tribute to the good old days," - Yeah, okay, so why don't we invite all the trolls who got banned from the site back? That'll be good. We can have Justin Bieber wanking stories and 100 word Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart stories with no discernible humour content back. Then there's the pseudo Disney Channel kiddie porn...The good old days. Yeah. Right.

"I just want to have fun!" - No problem. Whatever floats your boat. So the handful who just want to have 'fun' keep posting on the thread, and sort of crowing about emerging victorious from 'an argument' that never happened.

What did happen was that people took criticism as a personal slight, and launched a narcissistic backlash.

I'm with the Colonel on this one - we've chatted briefly about it - and the fact is that we dislike it for almost entirely different reasons. What we did agree on, is that neither of us wanted the thread removed, so the bottom line is that, yes, we (and others) did take a pop at the Holy Grail (And I use the term loosely) of threads, but the reaction to that was way out of proportion when balanced against what was actually posted.

God alone knows how many last words there will be on the subject - probably a million more. You guys took it out of all proportion, and beyond.

The thread is like a lifeless body that somebody or other keeps popping up and defibrillating. It's just always there, and I think it's a waste of time and space.

I find it intrusive. But that's just me.

I'm done. I shall run away now, before the slathering (sic) starts. My last word: As a point of debate, the subject should be dropped, on the grounds that some people participate in it with a genuine zeal. Nowt wrong with that.

Right...

Whose fucking round is it?

Skoob.

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Quote: Skoob1999

the rest was just leg-pulling.

you don't like your leg pulled either then

I think those of us who "aren't fans" of the thread knew to a degree what would happen if we had the temerity to criticise it. It would sound a clarion call, and it did.

"I won't be dictated to," - Nobody was dictating anything. Other than the pro-thread side, dictating from the rooftops that they wouldn't be dictated to.

sigh. So the whole ASDUB campaign - what was that then?

"It's a tribute to the good old days," where and who ever said that?- Yeah, okay, so why don't we invite all the trolls who got banned from the site back? That'll be good. We can have Justin Bieber wanking stories and 100 word Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart stories with no discernible humour content back. Then there's the pseudo Disney Channel kiddie porn...The good old days. Yeah. Right.where and who ever said that?

"I just want to have fun!" - No problem. Whatever floats your boat. So the handful who just want to have 'fun' keep posting on the thread, and sort of crowing about emerging victorious from 'an argument' that never happened.it's mighty big of you to let us carry on using the thread. Gee thanks. Where is there any crowing going on, eh? What the hell are you talking about?

What did happen was that people took criticism as a personal slight, and launched a narcissistic backlash.As the main creator of the backlash I take exception to those statements. My sincere perception was that there was an unjust singling out of a particular thread and an insult to those using it. I responded in kind. Yes, I laid it on thick, perhaps I overdid it - but perhaps if you had started a sensible debate instead of all this piss-taking about ASDUB the reaction would have been different

I'm with the Colonel on this one - we've chatted briefly about it - and the fact is that we dislike it for almost entirely different reasons. What we did agree on, is that neither of us wanted the thread removed,that's big of you gee thanks so the bottom line is that, yes, we (and others) did take a pop at the Holy Grail (And I use the term loosely) of threads, but the reaction to that was way out of proportion when balanced against what was actually posted.you're the only one using the term holy grail


God alone knows how many last words there will be on the subject - probably a million more. You guys took it out of all proportion, and beyond.so why are you still going on about it

The thread is like a lifeless body that somebody or other keeps popping up and defibrillating. It's just always there, and I think it's a waste of time and space.

I find it intrusive. But that's just me.so you keep saying

I'm done. I shall run away now, before the slathering (sic) starts. My last word: As a point of debate, the subject should be dropped, on the grounds that some people participate in it with a genuine zeal. Nowt wrong with that.so why go on about it

Right...

Whose fucking round is it?

Skoob.

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Oh dear.

I think above there was a bit of sensible debate with CJ, but I now see there's no point in this any more.

It's poisonous and futile.

Have fun

I am humbled. Stunning intellectual cut and thrust there from the man who wants to put all this behind us, but can't stop jabbering on about it.

*Doffs pork pie hat in deference*

Adds promise not to intrude into your cosy little Valhalla ever again.

Thor

(But thatithfied)

EQ 546 words in last post Skoob 451 words in last post
2x - 5y*-3.114412/20.5555 = 0

ZERO


We all fucking lost this debate. Results will be sent on to the Olympic Committee in Brazil for appraisal, which will likely result in a firing squad, no final meal. Cigerettes, and blindfolds only. Goodbye Spoof!

Dustbin Dance