Discussion Forum

Initially, let me state quite clearly that I'm not trying to start a war here. We lost the War Of Independence and I certainly don't ever want to be seen wearing a red coat, unless I'm watching United in fancy dress at Christmas.

So, to the point.

Which is quite hysterical considering I'm at least 80% Irish - why is there such a gulf between the way we think?

I received a private email yesterday, which intimated that I'm Xenophobic. My integrity was brought into question.

I was basically accused of being anti-American.

I was accused of taking the piss, when nothing could be further from the truth. I get ripped uphill and down dale on a regular basis - it goes with the spoof territory.

We think we're sophisticated and look down on our transatlantic cousins...or so it's been portrayed.

I never realised I was a xenophobic racist, and I hope that the bollocks on this website that I've ever written doesn't reflect that.

To whit - American culture:

A fine, long standing tradition for over 100 years.

We can appreciate - and indeed love - the old time favourites, like the Marx Brothers, Laurel and Hardy, the three Stooges (maybe not quite as good) but we get it.

We get John Wayne, we get Busby Berkely, we get Jimmy Cagney, we get Bobby DeNiro, we get Robert Duvall, we get Harvey Keitel, we get Martin Luther King, we get Elvis, we get the sound of Motown, we get Otis Redding at Whiskey A Go-Go, we get Hendrix, we get the Chicago Symphony Orchestra as being one of the finest in the world.

It isn't reciprocal though.

Anything that doesn't gel perfectly with your way of thinking is there to be picked apart, and heaven help you if you have internet access and dare to not be a Republican.

The bottom line is that we don't think you're some kind of collective joke. We don't have delusions of grandeur. and we wouldn't in a million years ever be so presumptuous.

Getting back to the culture thing for a moment - Jersey Shore - which I've never seen seems about as relevant as The Only Way Is Essex.

There really is a world beyond the shores of the United States.

And fucking Disneyland.

Don't fuck with the Irish.

Skoob.

Got a bit confused there...Skoob...lives in England??? That's what I thought.

To me, both countries (and even Canada where this Brit. came to live years ago) have their fair share of decent, kind folk, fair share of criminals, fair share of idiots, fair share of racists, fair share of most things, though we COULD do with a few more pubs in Canada - we are over-run with Churches....

We do need more Spoof Writers though.

Just saying!

Editing again: You can NEVER and SHOULD NEVER judge a whole nation or nationality etc. on a few people you meet.

Also, first impressions are not always the 'right impressions' whichever way the first impression goes. I have found that out much to my delight on some occasions and much to my distain on others.

Stay 'open minded and give folk a chance' - they'll either endear themselves to you - no matter where they come from in life - or they'll turn you right off.

We are all individuals. Thank dog we ARE different

Skoob - Whoever sent you that message wants stringing up ..

Anyway, I'm transferring this from the other thread. To sit below yours and maybe add to the debate:-


What I find weird is that I'm saturated in American culture.. but rarely find a glimmer of it reflected on the Spoof..

Whereas elements of our British culture are displayed here almost on a daily basis..

Like this one of Skoob's.. I get it. And I bet most other Brits get it...

And Pinxit's latest. That's brilliant too..(2 toilet stories in News Discussion)

We've a massive tradition for black and very dark comedy.. going back centuries.

But looking at above comments, I really can't see there's a US Spoof audience for this level of humour. The sort that comes out of our own movies like The Ladykillers or Kind Hearts & Coronets.

Or certainly Derek & Clive.. And anything written by Joe Orton..

But that doesn't matter a jot.

Except it does matter.

It matters because quite a few UK Spoofers explore and celebrate our culture in all sorts of ways. Not just our IoW stories. (BTW thanks Doc) Or socks and goldfish. But actually through much of what we bring to the table. On a day by day basis.

So Lady G doesn't get it. Fine. No problem. Wouldn't have it any other way. So others stay silent. Or shout leave us alone. Fine...

OK.

Maybe I'm missing it all..

Maybe US and Canadian writers on here DO explore their culture. Only I'm too blind to see it.

Yet I look. Most days find me wandering over to the US of A site to read what's going on.

Yup!

You should see my film store. Packed with some of the jewels of American culture. Going all the way back to Goldiggers of '33 and 42nd Street..

Neil Simon was one of the all time greats. Cagney, greatest film actor of all time. Some Like It Hot. Jack Lemmon. Brando. De Niro..

FFS. I'm not gonna make a list. There are hundreds of them..

So what's the product of all that?

Any heritage? Here on the Spoof...?

Just askin'

SO! Pinxit's the TURDY TOILET TROUBADOR. AHA! I knew it was one of your 'gang'.

What doesn't Lady G. get by the way?

I'm English but have been out of the country so long...I don't get some of the British humour...that's because I am no longer immersed in the British way of life and don't get the 'in jokes' even when I am home on watching the telly in Middlebrough, my family sometimes have to tell me what everyone is laughing at.

I didn't 'get it' when I first came to Canada....the Canadian and US humour I mean.....now I do...though I have my favourites.

It isn't the PERSON it's their environment that dictates whether or not they get it...and how long they have been in that particular environment.

Do YOU get what I am getting at?

How many of you experienced living, for any decent length of time, in another country other than the one you were born in?

It DOES colour your world to some degree.

Most sober English I've met have been jolly decent people, as have been most of the unarmed Americans that I've come across.

If you think there's a wide gulf between UK and US comedy, you want to try living in rural France!

Despite having the piss gently taken out of me on a fairly regular basis by the locals - almost as much as when I lived in Germany, I've found that everyone is much the same the world over.

Apart from the Welsh of course.

Oh yes! I forgot about the Welsh! Just joking...I know some luverly Welsh folk. Love their accent too.

I'm still waiting to hear from CJ as to what it is I don't get?

I wonder how you 'dyed in the wool' Brits. would deal with Canadian humour???


Jim Carrey is Canadian

Michael J.Fox is Canadian

Donald Sutherland is Canadian

William Shatner (Captain Kirk) is Canadian

Barack Obama is not Canadian

The list goes on and on and on .



Just saying. LOL

Mike Myers (The spy who shagged me etc) Is also a Canadian.

I knew his uncle who lived in a little house in Liverpool a few streets away from me, and every time he (Mike that is) released a new film, the local rag would come round and knock on his uncle's door looking for a 'local angle' to put into the paper. Every time they did this Myer's uncle would make up some fantastic story normally involving sex and corruption to explain why they had the wrong address.

The odd thing was, that although they were researching a back story of a comedian, it never occurred to any of the cub reporters that the old boy was pulling their legs.

This of course has nothing to do with the Welsh, and very little to do with Canadians, but it's a quiet night and one has to rattle on about something.

I'm with the old boy.

Even if he is a Mickey Mouser.

Stunning silence here innit?

Plumbing for points probably.

Regs

Skoob.

No points to be gained from discussion forums. Pity really - because some of you would be Top Writer by now.

Other Canadian comedians - whilst I wait for CJ to let me know what it is I don't get.

Rick Moranis is Canadian

Dan Aykroyd is Canadian

Eugene Levy is Canadian

Martin Short is Canadian

Leslie Nielsen Canadian

John Candy Canadian

Tommy Chong Canadian

There are hundreds of them....including my daughter and her boyfriend who I will NOT name here.

Yup Skoobie..

The silence is flippin' deafening...

Lady Godiva..

that's four puddles you've made already.

On a thread to which you've absolutely nothing to offer...

Of course, you're quite free to do this..

so trash away to your heart's content..

we'll simply put on our wellies and negotiate our way round you...

I need more than wellies to wade through the shite I have to read here....I need 'waders'. You know...those that come up to the armpits. LOL

But you know that I love you all and look forward to wearing my 'waders' on days like these

You are so funny. I think you even believe some of the stuff you write.

Have you heard of "Anthony Davies" MP....you'd better not vote for him or your pensions will be halved.

Edit: Nae Mair Crap has corrected me....it is Philip Davies I meant - as you will see below as she admonishes me in a 'friendly' fashion.

Oh...seems no-one has answered my question about 'how many of you - or who amongst you' have spent any length of time living outside the country in which you were born?

Anyone? No-one?

Come on, surely a couple of you have travelled further than Spain and it's fish 'n' chip shops.

Englishighten me guys.

I'll put me 'waders' back on shall I? LOL

Lady G - it's Phillip Davies MP. Get with the programme. I tell you these things and you get confused, don't you?

Anyway, back to Skoob and this thread. Skoob, many people abroad think that British people can be xenophobic. That may be true but I have not seen any evidence that you tend towards xenophobia. Quite the opposite, in fact. Maybe it's your off the wall style that they don't get. And, maybe it takes other Brits to get your humour sometimes.

As Captain Cameron is always telling us - we're all in this together - so let's just enjoy the humour.

Oh Danny Alexander is on Sky now talking about Public Service Pensions. I wonder how much Danny and his fellow MP's will take as a cut in their gold plated pensions? Now, there's humour.

So sorry Nae Mair Crap.....Philip Davies...that's the guy. Thanks for putting me straight on that. Sorry I 'let you down there'.

Why aren't the Brit Spoofers answering my direct questions?

Ooh! Are you scared to admit that you haven't travelled and you are NOT as wordly wise as you would like your fans to think.

Come on guys. I'm wearing my hip waders.....

I can stand the stench!

Not one to back down from a challenge either.

I was brought up in a tough part of Middlesbrough.

Taught to stand on me own two feet - thanks to me dear ol' Da. May he rest in peace.

Hugs to you all. I think a few of you need a great big hug or two don't you. I've got plenty to go around. x x x

Oh my! Same few Spoofers on the Discussion Threads.

Anyone getting the message yet?

Interesting discussion...First, Lady G, I've lived in Mexico as a foreign exchange student for some time. I had no idea how "real" Mexico was even though I have lived in Texas the vast majority of my life. It was the first time I was ever truly humbled because the bus on the way to school went through a shanty town. I had never seen anything like it except for the movies. It opened my eyes to how good most American's really do have it. After my studies, I came back a different, more well rounded person.

I am also Canadian, as I've said in previous posts. My parents best friends from Canada are a British woman married to an Iraqi. The vast majority of my friends are laid back and cool people who would give their shirts off their backs to help someone. Some have lived in Texas their whole lives, others come from the East Coast, yet others from California.

My comedy writing partner (but not for things I do for The Spoof) is from the UK. He is one of my coolest friends and the friends he has in the UK would most likely all get along with my friends because we are all very much alike in that we hang out in artsy places, listen to all sorts of music, and have great conversations.

All that being said, even though my writing partner and I talk daily, there are things I don't understand. Just like there are things I write that he doesn't get. He always says, "It has nothing to do with your hilarity level, but everything to do with the fact I not knowing anything of American politics." Yet, we teach each other things. Just as I learn things from several of you. I google a lot also just so I can get some references.

I do agree with the opinion that the vast majority of people are rather nice if given a chance. But I also think there are some, from any country, who talk out of their asses (or arses....because I love that word!) Met a guy today at a cafe who was a walking ass. And met another at the gas station who was really sweet.

I think you'll find a lot of us have lived abroad and still do currently.

Anyway, living abroad doesn't necessarily mean anything, although it does give you a different angle. It can also make you more xenophobic. Depends on the day.

Back to the issue at hand. I was going to write a great long post about the topic, which I find very very interesting, but then I realised that I would have been rambling. To put it succinctly, the Weiner stories, which lie at the root of this thread, were fine by me. Political satire is fine by me. If a big story, such as the Weiner story, breaks and is still ongoing, then people are going to write about it. The guy's name means the quality and quantity coefficients will probably be a little out of sync but there you go.

The US writers do tend to focus more on political satire, and it's not so big over in the UK at the moment. Rather than this being anything to do with culture, I think it is a reflection of the times. Is there a difference in the way people are dealing with the recession? In the UK the best time for political satire is when the economy is doing well. When we're f--ked we don't really want to think about it, unless we've got no choice. It'll be interesting to see how the strikes go.

I'll stop there, because I'm conscious that I'm not really bearing the brunt of it. I'm sure if I were back home I'd be the same as everybody else.

And so back to our American cousins, who are busily writing about what they want to write about. They're not referencing 'traditions', or bigging up their own sense of national importance through intellectual dalliances with the good ole days. Great. Let it be I reckon, because if they ever do get too retro the rest of the world is going to know about it.

So here's to satire in the US, and to the traditions of PJ O'Rourke and Hunter Thompson; Frank Zappa and Bill Hicks; George Carlin and, er, one for the ladies......Emily Dickenson! Forgive me, I'm not as well read as I would wish.

Finally, from one who loves American folk forms, let me give you a link. It's done wonders for my attempt to understand the American culture:

http://www.folkstreams.net/

I'm sure a lot of Americans wont be happy about Limey turning his inward sentimentality outward, but you can't please everyone, and I don't aim to.

If you guys have got any suggestions on good contemporary authors or material that you think demonstrates where it's at in the US, then speak; let us know.

Live and let live. Unless you're an sports or entertainment section points whore of course, in which case....

Nah. Live and let live all the same.

Ellie, my comments were obviously NOT directed at you.

I was so happy to read of your experiences etc. That is what a REAL life is all about.

I was mainly 'speaking' to the people who have NOT had the experiences YOU describe and who live in a very, VERY 'small' world.

I envy you your experiences and I am certain you understand what I am TRYING to say.

Edit: Randy - I'm not 'into' the Weiner thing or ANY politics - as you will see if you read my pathetic attempt at trying to write about the subject....but I would like to say - there are dozens of Brits who came here the year before we did and the did NOT immerse themselves in the Canadian culture etc. They, even after 29 years of being here, whine about Canada and Canadians and wish they were back 'ome. Sad really. I wish they would go back 'ome too.

Oh - I don't get Jersey Shore either. (Any reality show, for that matter.) TV is supposed to help me escape from reality.

I'm also 50% Irish, 40% Scottish, 10% Cherokee.

I'm fluent in Spanish, and I also speak muy bueno Tex-Mex.

I love The Beatles, my favorite band is U2. I also really like Mumford and Sons (Canadian), and The Mother Truckers (from Austin). I also spent my childhood in Canada listening to The Irish Rovers because my Dad liked them.

I dig Monty Python; I loved the British Office (The US copied almost the entire 1st season word for word); I loved Faulty Towers. I listen to the British BBC.

When I tell my friend David how I think some things in the US sucks, he tells me what he thinks sucks about where he lives. And, we are actually pissed off about the same things. We're not that different.

No worries, LG...I didn't think you were directing anything at me. You just asked about living abroad.

I just got an email about the Fulbright Teacher Exchange Program and I'm thinking about applying.

I miss Canadian summers!

Interesting to hear from those who of you who have travelled and 'lived' abroad, have friends from different countries etc.

We still haven't heard from 'The Regulars' yet...on this topic.

As I said, a couple of weeks in Spain doesn't count. I've never been there myself.

I live abroad.

Well, not technically speaking, but for a Mancunian, the South coast may as well be abroad. I've lived in several places in the North West, then south London, then just outside the M25 in Surrey, then Basingstoke, and now the South coast. I lived in Hastings for a while, but there were some strange people there, who partook of strange occult like rituals. So I didn't stay long.

I've travelled a bit, mainly in Europe, Rome is my favourite city, closely followed by Barcelona.

I've also been to New York.

My ambition is to retire to France and be Lynton's neighbour, so he can diagnose whatever ails me and save time waiting in the doctor's surgery.

In the evenings we could get together with our spouses, chow down on frog's legs and black pudding and discuss the finer things in life, like Cadbury's Drinking Chocolate, the art of Tracy Emin, 60's Soviet architecture and the music of Wild Willie Barret and John Otway.

Regards

Skoob.

What's culture? The mould that grows on large gatherings of people?

No, really, what is culture?

It's different things to different folk. That's why it is so interesting....one just cannot pin it down can one?

There are cultures within cultures, within cultures I find - especially as more people move around on this great earth and mix - so maybe a new word should be invented

Some great things from Yank culture - eg Black music that lead to rock n roll & jazz and then to rock and pop etc. LOts of great popular music from the US.

Also on a different level some great literature and music - great authors and humourists as well as composers like Copeland, Barber.

There's also the kind of pop culture - fast food, TV, casual throwaway fashion, use of language, urban crime* - that's been exported abroad for a long time now and is a fixed part of our culture certainly.

*satire